高清福利片

Australia has more homes per adult than at any point in our history. So why is our housing crisis worse than ever?

Professor Nicole Gurran鈥檚 been studying housing for 15 years, and she says the solutions to Australia's housing crisis are obvious 鈥撀爄t鈥檚聽the execution聽that鈥檚聽failing, and most Australians are being distracted by media and politicians.

Nicole explains why "cutting red tape"聽won't聽solve the problem,聽why聽聽more聽than a聽million Australian households are living in housing stress, and what happened when government funding for social housing fell off a cliff in the mid-90s.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听00:01

This podcast is recorded at the University of Sydney's Camperdown campus on the land of the Gadigal people of the Eora nation.聽They've聽been discovering and sharing knowledge here for 10s of 1000s of years. I pay my respects to elders past and聽present, and聽extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.聽You聽can't聽talk about聽housing in Australia without adding the word crisis. Young people聽can't聽afford to leave home. Renters spend more than half of their income on rent. Social housing seems like an afterthought. The diagnosis seems obvious: we聽don't聽have enough houses. The solution seems clear: build more. Across the political spectrum, there's agreement that planning regulations are holding us聽back,聽that red tape is the problem, that if we just cut through聽the bureaucracy聽and approve more developments, the crisis would resolve itself. But what if that framing is wrong? What聽if聽focusing on supply and planning reform is distracting us from the聽changes聽we really need to make.聽Nicole Gurran has been studying housing for 15 years, and she says the solutions to the housing problem are聽actually very聽straightforward,聽we're聽just not doing them. This is the Solutionists,聽I'm聽Mark Scott.聽Nicole Gurran is聽professor聽of Urban and Regional Planning at the University of Sydney, and聽director聽of the Henry Halloran聽Research Trust. She led the聽People's聽Commission report聽鈥淰oices of the聽Crisis鈥�,聽which outlines the real solutions to the housing crisis in Australia. Nicole,聽you're聽not sure people really understand the housing crisis.聽What's聽your understanding of the common view of the crisis?聽

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听02:08

Yeah, and you know聽this is a word聽that's聽crept in lately.聽Obviously聽there's聽always been inequality聽actually in聽housing systems, but if you listen to the news right now,聽you'd聽think that the housing crisis聽we've聽got in Australia is that we聽don't聽have enough homes.聽That's聽actually not聽the case.聽In fact,聽Anglicare鈥檚聽sums show that聽we've聽got more homes now per adult than聽we've聽ever had at any point in Australia's history. The problem that we have is that the homes that聽we've聽got聽aren't聽equally available to the people who need them. And so we've got, you know, some people who are able to own multiple properties and have access to large space while we've got other low income earners who can't even affordably,聽actually,聽access a room to share, let alone an appropriate decent apartment to rent.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听03:00

So why is there this common narrative that聽doesn't聽tell the real story? What aren't we seeing?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听03:06

If we聽go back to聽fundamentals and say where the housing problem is in Australia,聽it's聽primarily a problem聽if聽you're聽a聽low-income聽renter聽and a聽middle-income聽aspiring homeowner.聽Then聽we're聽talking聽about a lot of people.聽So聽we're聽talking about 1.26 million households,聽low-income聽renter households,聽who are living in housing stress, paying more than 30% of their income on housing, doing without doctors, you know, dentists, food in some cases, you know, certainly facing precarity. That's not even talking about the rising visible homeless population, and then we've got a cohort of aspiring first home owners who are middle incomes and increasingly high incomes now, who simply can't get into the market because of the high deposits, and then the very high home loans that they need to accumulate. That group is crowding together in the rental system and creating even though, in fact, our private rental sector has grown phenomenally over the past 30 years.聽It's聽expanded聽the supply of private rental housing stock itself,聽expanded faster than household growth, for instance. But聽we've聽got聽all of聽this competition in a private rental sector that was never designed for people to live long-term. It was only ever intended to be聽a transitional.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听04:27

Passing through.聽We're聽recording this at the University of Sydney. Sydney seems obsessed聽by聽real estate. To what extent is this a Sydney issue, or is it聽really聽a national issue?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听04:39

Look, housing affordability聽actually is聽an international issue. I mean,聽it's聽a cruel irony though, that in a wealthy country like Australia, where you know, the value of our housing stock continues to rise and rise, and with it, the wealth of the two thirds of Australian households who do own their own property, as well as property investors.聽So聽a cruel irony that we聽can't聽then afford to decently house people on low incomes and people who聽aren't聽already in ownership. But聽it's聽a national problem. We look, those of us who live in Sydney, look at regional聽areas聽and see聽relatively lower聽house prices聽and also聽lower rents, but in聽actual fact, relative to income and certainly relative to job opportunities as聽well,聽those rents and prices are out of reach.聽And in fact, homelessness in regional areas is聽an absolutely chronic聽problem.聽Also in regional areas, you see very, very shallow rental聽markets,聽it's聽very difficult聽to聽actually find聽somewhere to rent, even if, hypothetically, the聽rents are lower.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听05:43

So,聽I want to come back to what the right solution might be. But聽I'm聽wondering if, in fact, an incorrect diagnosis, a diagnosis around housing shortages, is bringing an intervention聽that's聽been聽counterproductive.聽So,聽if聽in fact, we did聽kind of cut聽red tape and reduced regulation and provided the right incentives to developers, would that help solve housing issues聽we've聽got now聽or is that a diagnosis to the wrong disease?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听06:12

We've聽had several聽decades, actually, of聽planning reform, and every sort of five years or聽so,聽governments will say we need聽to cut red tape. And you know, a very plausible explanation for that is, firstly, in a country like Australia, where 2% of homes are supported by government and the rest are delivered by the private market, there's a limited amount that governments can do unless they're willing to go back to their 1980s and 90s, when there was considerable聽investment in social and affordable housing. Now, funding for social and affordable housing fell off a cliff in the mid 90s, and instead, we redirected our efforts to providing聽a very limited聽rental subsidy for聽low-income聽earners to rent in the private market. And of course,聽we're聽familiar with the generous taxation incentives for property investment, such as the capital gains tax discount introduced in 2000 and negative gearing, which was switched off for聽a short period聽of time, but聽that's聽the generous property聽tax incentive for聽investors.聽Those two things drive demand to the existing housing stock without any obligations for landlords, for instance, to provide an affordable or long-term or even decent, quite frankly, in many cases, rental聽unit. But聽it's聽left us in Australia, dependent on a fragmented private rental system dominated by individual property investors and聽a聽housing construction industry that increases volume when prices rise but tends to plateau when market conditions聽are poor.聽So聽we've聽got two things going on.聽We've聽got the very real need to continue to produce聽new homes in line with population growth and change, and聽that's聽important, and聽that's聽why I聽wouldn't聽say we聽don't聽need new housing supply, but聽we're聽kind of overcooking聽the solution. We need聽new聽housing supply. We need聽high-density housing supply. We need聽all of聽the things that聽we're聽talking about, but聽that's聽not going to solve the absolute housing crisis聽that's聽affecting聽low-income聽renters and people aspiring,聽middle-income Australians aspiring to first home ownership. To help that cohort, we need to go back to investing in social and affordable聽housing, adequate rental subsidies, and聽actually looking聽at how we create new housing products that聽aren't聽simply, you know, churned out by the market as聽investment products.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听08:51

If you look at the media in the public debate, it feels like the housing crisis is uniquely Australian,聽but in reality,聽it's聽an international problem, isn't it? What is unique about the Australian challenge, and how does it track with other countries?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听09:08

Yeah,聽that's聽fascinating.聽On the question of,聽you know, is housing affordability an international problem,聽It聽is, and it links to what researchers like to call the global聽financialisation聽of housing, or the聽assetisation聽of housing.聽A lot of wonderful researchers here at the University of Sydney聽actually,聽have聽you聽know, explained how with聽financialisation聽more broadly, sell聽access to cheaper finance that ended up being invested in things like property. And with a whole lot of financial innovation as well, you suddenly have people able to invest in property in one part of the world or in one part of Australia without聽actually even聽living in it. And you聽know, so聽houses have become聽a very good聽place to store wealth.聽So聽we've聽increasingly had this politics of housing ownership聽or聽property ownership as opposed to a聽politics of residence. You know, where people live, people being able to form and聽maintain聽strong bonds with their communities, communities that are inclusive enough for people to move into. And that problem, per se聽isn't聽uniquely Australian, but there's a couple of things that sort of shape our responses. The first thing is, because traditionally,聽we've聽only ever had quite a small proportion of households living in public housing or socially subsidized housing. We were about 6% through the mid 90s, even though our government produced more than 10% of the housing stock at points in time. But聽we've聽traditionally聽had not聽a very strong聽social housing sector. Now, countries like in Europe, for instance, in the United Kingdom, when the governments began to retreat from, you know, heavily subsidising the housing sector, they already had strong institutions able to continue to provide the homes that lower income earners needed at scale, and that's a very important part of the housing system. And even if we look at countries like Hong Kong or Singapore with聽very strong聽traditions and ongoing traditions of government involvement in housing development and in social housing production, Australia looks like an incredible outlier in comparison to those countries.聽And then the other thing is our unique geography, because despite being so large,聽we're聽one of the most urbanised countries in the world.聽And in fact, you know, 60% of the population聽live, you know, in two or three capital cities. And by failing to actually decentralise the geography of opportunity in Australia, we've made it even more difficult for people to have their choices in terms of where they live and are able to, you know, have decent housing that's within striking distance of their jobs, you know, let alone family and social networks.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听12:00

As you look around the world, are there countries or models you think Australia should be looking at for inspiration in dealing with these issues?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听12:09

We can look internationally, and we can see that there are聽a number of聽things that Australia could be doing and we聽aren't聽doing. There's some small things, like, for instance, Australia is an absolute outlier that when we rezone land for new housing development, or when we, you know, reuse government land, for instance, or you know offer it up for sale, we're not seeing a significant affordable housing component as part of that new housing development. Now聽we're聽an absolute outlier there on聽not using inclusionary planning as a, you know, as a baseline expectation. We have seen recent,聽sort of tentative聽steps in that direction, but, you know, at a very聽very聽small level, you know,聽in international scale. We can also see governments such as, you know, Singapore and Hong Kong very, very firmly involved in housing development, and particularly public housing and social housing development, and European countries doing that as well. And then we have the聽really inspiring聽examples of some聽non-market聽forms of housing that are aimed at people across the income spectrum, for instance, in various points in the life cycle. But housing cooperatives, deliberative housing development, that groups聽are able to聽do their own development together on a limited profit model. Community land trusts, where a聽non-profit聽organization owns the land, but individuals own the dwelling on the land and so, you know, again it's聽a聽it's a way of really聽decommodifying聽actually,聽housing and providing homes for people to live in securely build communities, but聽it's聽not about housing primarily as a financialised asset.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听13:58

That all sounds kind of intriguing and interesting and kind of fascinating that there are models readily available and accessible from around the world if, if good solutions are聽fairly straightforward, why have they got so little political traction in Australia? Why have we seen a failure of political will to look for these kinds of answers to聽what appears to be a聽pressing domestic聽problem.

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听14:24

Well, a decade ago, my colleague Peter聽Phipps聽and I聽actually wrote聽an article saying, you know, why don't governments want to fix the housing problem? And we were talking particularly about Australia, and we use the term busy work to describe the tactic of whenever the housing problem comes up, what do you do? You announce a task force, you call for planning reform, you blame other levels of government, absolutely, because聽the politics of housing in a country like Australia remain weighted towards the existing two-thirds of Australians who own their own homes, plus the, you know,聽very significant聽property industry. Now,聽Australia is not the only country to have a politics of home ownership聽that is, you know, that kind of dominates the debate, but it's very聽tempting聽for governments to continue to call for things like, you know, planning reform,聽blame other levels of government, blame so called NIMBY communities, rather than do the more complicated things like tax reform, which is essential, actually, if we want to free up the financial resources even to reinvest in social and affordable housing, let alone even the playing field for first home buyers trying to purchase on the market.聽So,聽you know, we have聽a vested interest聽in聽maintaining聽the status quo and聽a聽set of聽tried and true聽political strategies for seeming concerned about housing, acting busy, but making聽sure that聽that status quo is聽maintained. And until聽we've聽got conviction, politicians who聽are able to聽lead us to a real path of reform around housing, the politics of housing are still going to push us in the other direction.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听16:21

So聽play it forward. You know, five years,聽ten聽years,聽twenty聽years. If we聽don't聽make significant reform, given the pressures that we see now on low-cost, affordable housing and home ownership affordability,聽what's聽a decade or two going to mean to what聽we're聽seeing on the ground?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听16:41

Well, we've barely begun to see what's actually happening under the surface, the absolute grinding poverty and the impact of that grinding poverty on the you know, 1.26 million households, Australian households, who are, you know, foregoing medicine and living in absolute precarity. Now聽that's聽going to continue to worsen, that the unfairness that聽we're聽seeing, the聽tenure-based聽inequality, will only worsen. We will unfortunately see more obvious street homelessness. We will see the intergenerational impacts of poor housing, and we聽haven't聽even talked about the combined crisis of vulnerability to climate change, and, you know, housing poverty, and聽that's聽already playing out. It played out in Lismore and in the Northern Rivers, you know, and in many other parts of Australia, because we know that lower income people who are precariously housed are also at the front line of the climate emergency. You know,聽they're聽living in uninsulated, poorly聽maintained,聽you know, properties that are often exposed to extreme heat, but also聽often in, you know, flood liable areas. And you know, and so it goes on.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听17:58

And you expect to see significant movements of young people away from the most expensive cities like Sydney and Melbourne in pursuit of home ownership?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听18:08

It'll聽be interesting to see how that plays out.聽At the moment, we still聽don't聽have聽the economic聽opportunities for people beyond the capital cities, and so聽we've聽certainly seen people want to regionalise in their housing choices. But often we see it's actually older people, pre retirees, perhaps move to the regions, you know, in their late 40s and finally able to achieve home ownership in the regions, actually triggering a ricochet effect in those regional towns, actually, you know, causing price pressures there as they go. So potentially, I think regional decentralisation actually would be a wonderful part of the housing solution, but that needs some planning around it to, you know, to make it genuinely an alternative for younger generations and also for people in the regions actually themselves, to not need to move to the cities themselves, you know, in search of economic opportunities.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听19:05

Why have Australian governments, state and federal, moved so strongly away from the provision of social housing? What was there about social housing that became politically problematic in Australia compared to other parts of the world?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听19:20

I mean, worldwide there has聽actually been聽a retreat of the聽so-called聽welfare state. It's just that Australia had a very low base to begin with, and so our retreat was, you know, from say 10% of housing production by government to, you know, less than 2% and at any one point only 6% it's stuck in the social and affordable housing sector.聽So聽we were caught up by the waves of neoliberalism that other comparable countries experienced, the shift to believing that the market was best placed to solve social problems and that government's job was to get out of the way. And that meant,聽yeah.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听20:00

Why wasn't the market well equipped to deliver that stock of housing?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听20:05

Well, in part, because of this聽assetisation聽effect that, you know,聽I've聽described in as much as housing has become more than only a place to live.聽Now,聽homes are also a very聽unusual good, if you like.聽They're聽not like, you know, bananas,聽where you know, when the price of bananas goes up, people switch to apples, you know, and oranges. You聽can't聽really do that.聽So聽houses聽aren't聽very substitutable.聽Bananas disintegrate at some point in time, so you聽can't聽stockpile them.聽Unlike houses, which are, you know,聽very durable,聽very expensive聽to produce. You know, one banana is pretty聽similiar聽to another banana, you know, if you asked me,聽whereas聽houses are聽very unique听补苍诲听they're聽fixed in place.聽So聽we've聽got聽sort of a聽narrative, an economic narrative about houses being just like bananas, and the only problem being one of, you know, artificially constraining the production of bananas, which聽actually is聽completely at odds with how housing systems have always worked.聽And then became even more at odds once we added in this, you know, the global聽financialisation聽of everything which ended up investing in聽housing in particular.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听21:28

The People's聽Commission聽report that you led gave a series of recommendations about that. Can you walk us through the essential findings?

狈颈肠辞濒别听骋耻谤谤补苍听听21:36

Sure, and I was a commissioner, independent Commissioner with Doug Cameron, former politician, and it was organised by a coalition of housing advocacy bodies around Australia. It was extraordinary, and we heard testimony from more than 1000 individuals and organisations as to the impact of the housing crisis聽for them. There are聽essentially three聽or four key recommendations that聽they鈥檙e聽repeating. The first is to reinvest in social and affordable housing. We need 640,000 social and affordable homes聽Right聽now,聽we're聽on track in Australia to about 55,000 by the end of the decade.聽So,聽you know, we really need to completely change the way that we invest in housing in this country. We need a fairer taxation system for聽all of聽the reasons that I outlined. We also need to look at a fair deal for renters in the private sector so that it becomes a secure and decent tenure to live in. We should also be looking at housing justice for First Nations communities. Now we can see many聽really wonderful聽examples,聽actually,聽in聽the First Nations Space of聽Indigenous-led designed models of housing delivery, but a lot more support and investment聽needs聽to go into that space as well.聽And lastly, of course, we absolutely聽have to聽look at a more environmentally聽sustainable and resilient housing system.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听23:10

That's聽Nicole Gurran, Professor of Urban and Regional Planning at the University of Sydney, cutting through the noise about聽what's聽really driving Australia's housing crisis. And if聽you're聽thinking about the systems that shape our cities and communities,聽you'll聽enjoy our episode with Ian聽Goldin聽from Oxford.

滨补苍听骋辞濒诲颈苍听听23:29

The cities聽aren't聽defined anymore by natural resources or crossroads,聽they're聽defined by being very聽liveable, good places to be. As聽more and more聽people from professional backgrounds come to them, they develop more wealth, and they become the places to be.

惭补谤办听厂肠辞迟迟听听23:44

You can listen to that episode of the聽Solutionists right聽now,听补苍诲听make sure聽you're聽following the聽show聽so you聽don't聽miss an episode. The Solutionists is a podcast from the University of Sydney, produced by聽顿别补诲蝉别迟听厂迟耻诲颈辞蝉.

The Solutionists is a podcast from the University of Sydney, produced by聽. Keep up to date with聽The Solutionists聽by following @sydney_uni聽on聽听补苍诲听, and @sydney.edu.au on聽.

This episode was produced by Liam Riordan with聽sound聽design by Jeremy Wilmot. Supervising producer is Sarah Dabro. Executive editors are Kellie Riordan, Jen Peterson-Ward, and Mark Scott.聽Strategist聽is Ann Chesterman.

This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gadigal people of the Eora nation. For thousands of years, across innumerable generations, knowledge has been taught,聽shared聽and exchanged here. We pay respect to elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.